All right, girls, here's one for you. It's about, well, the guys. (Photo from the movie Old School starring Will Farrell.)
This article comes from the Wall Street Journal. Read the article at the link HERE.
What I'd like to know is this:
How accurate is this article? Do you think it applies to you, since most of you are not over the age of 21? Is this what you're going to find when you reach the age of 25?
Girls, let us know if this is what you find out there in the real world.
Guys, let us know if you think this is discriminatory, berating, incendiary...or even justified.
Let's try 300 or so words on this topic. If you dispute this, give reasons for doing so.
Remember, at this stage of the game, your arguments should be more advanced. Remember the tenets of Critical Analysis, and how to develop an effective and logical argument. If you agree, state why. If you disagree, state why. Find a source or two and provide the proof to your stance.
Enjoy...MP
As I've grown I've noticed alot of men are like this and act exactly as the article said they have. But on the other hand I have met someone who is the total opposite of everything the article says. Yeah, everyone has feel on hard times but at least he is trying to go out in the world and do things for himself, instead of depending on his mother to take care of him his whole life. My father is 41 years old and is still living with my grandmother. Personally that makes me angry.....that you didn't have enough initiative to go out and find a job, stop playing video games, NOTHING!!! I am so happy that I don't have to deal with things like that. The article was somewhat accurate but not for all men.
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ReplyDeleteI have three siblings whom all were married by the time they turned 24. My brother and the husbands of my two sisters never seemed to have gone through the pre-adulthood stage. However I have many male friends who fall into this category. Even though I love them all and I enjoy their company, I would never consider dating them due to their lack of maturity. I haven’t come across a guy I was interested in that knew how to balance responsibilities, partying, and call of duty. Some of those guys are in relationships but usually, or from what I’ve observed, those relationships are all basically a joke and go nowhere.
ReplyDeleteLooking at my brother and the husbands of my sisters’, I can’t say all guys are like this. My brother was married by his 21st birthday and instead of going to parties or watching fairly odd parents, he’s going to craft shows and watching cooking shows (it’s kind of weird). My brother in-laws are not as extreme as my brother but they both were young when they married my sisters and they always knew what was important and what wasn’t.
Maybe my sisters just got lucky; as for my brother…I’m not sure what he is…definitely a freak of nature. Maybe there still are guys that matured the same time they did (probably not as bad as my brother). Unfortunately, the "frat" boys have taken over.
I feel this can sometimes be true about guys in their pre-adult stage. Yes there are guys that are just focused on how many girls they lay, but I feel this stereotype should not be looked at by every guy. There are a lot of jerks out there but I feel you need to weed your way through them, or go to the other side. My aunt became a lesbian after a very nasty divorce. Most people say people who are gay are born that way, but in this case it was because of a bad experience. This is an example of what the article was talking about. I personally have never run into this problem. I feel it matters where the guy is from. For example I go to Hudson High School. This is considered a nice high school and mainly everyone there have nice home lives. The guys at my school don’t act like jerks. Also they are confident about their future and most know exactly where they will be in 10 years. I feel this is a way to pull the bad guys from the good. The ones who know where they will be in 10 or so years from now have realistic point of view and are very level headed. There is nothing you can do about the jerk like guys out there so why stress about it? As long as you don't put yourself in that situation and keep your standards high girls you should be okay. The guys who have the frat like personality are most likely going to find a girl with that type of personality also. Believe me there are plenty of girls like that out there for them. Look for the good guys in this world and by past the bad ones, they’re not worth your time to even think about them for one second.
ReplyDeleteAm i the only one who was kind of offended reading this article? I mean really? This whole no good men left argument? Really?
ReplyDeleteI dont know where to really start on this, the double standard of immaturity in men and women, the standard and expectations that women seem to have for men today, there are some major problems here.
To begin I really disagree with the idea that someone out of college who doesnt have their final job all in order is immature. Whoo, what ever happened to transitioning, what about just having a job to pay the bills? If a guy has a job and is able to afford rent and some basic necessaities then really this should be enough ladies, espcially right out of college!
The referenced movies like Knocked Up were such a hit because it tried to make the point that sometimes it takes some time to develop to that ultimate level of legitamcy (high paying job, all your affairs in order, what this article calls being a real man) If women are really going to go around with these standards, judging men off of some imaginary standard that your either making big bucks or a failure then all i can say is good luck being single.
Work with the people you got, don't sit there discouraging a person for trying to improve themselves, instead maybe try to help, be compassionate rather than judging and maybe some better men will appear.
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ReplyDeleteIt's a little truth behind this and then there’s a little fooliness. A lot of young men priorities are videos games, working out, partying, getting girls, etc.. In their defense though I do think at this age that, that is what they should be doing. Live, have fun get it all out of your systems because if a guy feels like he's missing out on something it’s something that transition in their mind that makes them feel like life is over lol. If they are taking care of themselves then that’s a plus especially right out of college. Guys are immature and when there with more guys their more immature as a woman I understand this that’s why my boyfriend is older than me. Women tend to put men on these invisible pedestals of perfection so if a man doesn't meet their criteria all hell break loose. That guy is the worse, a jerk, he's going to hell and all that shit. At this age women want to be steady with one guy in her life because the little girl in her is ready to plan her dream wedding soon. You get those guys who feel like they met “her” and don’t want to waste any more time and then you get those guys who met “her” and messed everything up. Guys are guys not all are bad and not all have good intention but I think nowadays they just want to have fun. It may take a couple more years for a man to transition into a set lifestyle on what he wants to do and who he wants to be but I do believe they have to go though that stage and as a woman I do feel it comes easier to us to "man up" ironically but it is what it is. Comparing this blog to Knocked Up is priceless first of all hilarious movie and second that was a lifestyle for a young man for sure, and as soon as responsibility came he didn't know what to do but did you noticed at how it was stereotyped for the woman to have everything put in place and all together. I’m just saying but it is majority guys who do these things but it is very stereotyped.
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ReplyDeleteI'm going to use the ethos argument here, as my existence completely refutes her argument. I play xbox and online computer games. I occasionally make an inappropriate joke (after all, what appropriate joke is funny?) and I talked about Star Wars last night to someone double my age! I forgot to mention Lord of The Rings. However, I do have a family and look forward to a lovely life. What is going on here? According to the author of this article, I shouldn't exist.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that the author of this article is less concerned with finding the right man and more concerned about sharing her failed attempts at finding her "good man". Through her failed attempts, she has observed many pre-adult men who live to play video games and refuse to clean their rooms. She even goes as far as to classify them as aging frat boys, maladroit geeks and grubby slackers. Despite her best attempts at belittling men, there are awkward, geeky, overweight and filthy girls too. In fact, both genders share these descriptions. It's called a lifestyle and both genders have them; however, whether they're positive or negative, is subjective to the viewer.
Role reversal can also be accredited with the lack of male productivity. For centuries, men have been protecting their families by providing for them. With the recent rise of women (20th century women’s rights movement), an equal opportunity environment has emerged. Faced with a new beginning, women are at the front of the job market, seeking to get what they have been lacking for so long. Respect. Well deserved respect too. However, this has doubled the amount of potential employees and thus has lead to an increase in competition for jobs. Instead of "manning up" as Kay Hymowitz puts it, these men decided to take an easy way out of life. However unfortunate, this does not mean that there are no longer any good men, it just means that you have to sift through more of the same to find your match.
To the ladies that agree with the author, I say quit blaming your failure with men on the negatives of male culture. No one is forcing you to choose one of these “guys” to hook up with. If you wish to find your ideal man, I suggest that you quit visiting the places that combine alcohol with aging frat boys, awkward geeks and dirty hippies. Be the proud, intelligent woman that you are and sift though the residue. The good men do the same. There are good men and women; you just have to know where to find them. Obviously, this continues to elude the author.
Well I have to say I do feel a bit offended. The author has had some bad luck with relationships and feels that she needs to lay all the blame on the guys, when who knows where she was meeting these dudes. According to the author I am immediately a looser and I am not responsible just because I am twenty six and I am not married, well lets see I have a job, I have my own place that I pay the rent on time for every month and I go to school, I think that is some responsibility right there, thank you very much. What’s the big rush to get married anyway, the divorce rates are way up in the U.S. so there is something. People are getting married when they aren’t ready, hmmmm, isn’t this what the author is alluding to? Not that I have anything against marriage, its great if your ready and I think that may be part of the numbers that the author was throwing at us also, people aren’t getting married because they aren’t where they want to be in life yet and maybe don’t feel that they could support a family and where the hell is the problem in that, that just shows even more responsibility! Just because you can get married doesn’t mean you should same goes for having children, if you’re not ready why would you do it? Well I guess that I have rambled long enough, all the guys who have posted so far all seem to have about the same feelings towards this ridiculous article, maybe if she had shown us some information on women of the same age who also partake in the pre-adolescence, oh but wait that might refute her own article, my bad!
ReplyDeleteThis article has some great points about men being stuck in a sort of limbo between the stages of college boy and adult hood. There are plenty of guys out there that continue their college partying on past school and think that it’s ok to be immature and irresponsible when its time to crack down and be a real man. I feel that men need to be the bigger person and take control of situations instead of sitting back and letting women deal with the adult problems. I am a strong believer in men carrying the family and working for most of what they have. It’s just the respectful thing to do. I have plenty of friends in college that all they want to do is play video games and drink all day with no responsibilities. But when it comes time to partying and getting girls, they put forth so much effort they could solve the question of time travel. Though there are plenty of guys out there like this, there are the mature, responsible ones also. This stereotype can also go the same way with women. Being in college you also see women trying for guys and getting wasted all the time. There are always the ones with minimal drive and rely on everyone around them for support. College is a time to get your partying and child tendencies out of your system before entering the real world, but at some point you need to start changing. It’s not like you just graduate and “poof”, you’re a real man now. It’s a learning process that takes time and work. And this article is talking about how guys in their late twenties with girlfriends are still the same way. It sucks that us real men have to be pushed into the same category as these boys.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting articel. I like this one. Men, well boys now-a-days are exactly how this article explains them. Playing the game all day until its time to drink and go out to the clubs and then back to the house or dorm to play more video games. To me it seems like boys will always still have that "little kid" mentality. It's proven that girls mature a couple more years before boys. I learned this in psychology class earlier in the semester. I wouldnt really say this is "stereotype" since its proven. This is accurate and it shows in a lot of young men and older men! I like this article, it has meaning.
ReplyDeleteI feel not all men go through the mid-adulthood stage. Many men however are very shitty. Most people would use relationships as an example as to why men are so shitty. However I feel most girls are just as stupid. Many people are not raised right, and this also could be gender issues from the parents. For example, my father gave my brother special treatment because he was his starlight, and did not give a shit about me. This made me stronger as a person and he is still on daddy’s couch playing hockey, video games, and living for daddy’s pay check. Many cases are just like “knocked Up” however. I am already getting my life together for the baby, which I am half way done making, while the father is too busy running away also living off of mommy and daddy’s paycheck. So in my opinion, it is not the kids fault. It is the parents fault. Let go of your god damn child and let them grow up. Let them fuck up a few times, learn their lesson, make them pay for their mistakes, so you too can get on with your lives.
ReplyDeleteWhat I like about this blog post is that since I have come to college I have met many “per-adults”. I had always thought that people in college come and party their face off the first two years and then somehow become intellectual and hardworking in the next two. The problem arises that partying your face off is not a good ingredient for either being intelligent or working hard. I have a number of friends who currently are in their last semester of college and are struggling to look for what they want to do the rest of their lives. One of my friends wants to make movies which gives a narrower career choice than some of my other friends who are majoring in business where there are a vast number of different choices. Either way their life is going to change in a big way. These per-adults spend most of their time playing video games partying or all night cramming before exams. Some have jobs some do not but if they do they are just common part time jobs. The problem with this relatively worry free lifestyle is that it does not teach any survival skills but just how to have fun. In movies people like to see these type of people and they like to see them succeed which they always do. Trying to recreate that lifestyle is easy but using that to create real life success is a different story. There are other things that contribute to this kind of lifestyle other than just the media. For us college age men it is too easy to just get your way through school with minimal effort. There is a lot of free time and many people like me have the idea that yes, college is for learning but why not party while you are there. The culture has gone to make people think that it’s ok to do that in college which to an extent it is but as the article points out it can ultimately end up bad for men and women alike.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the article, I personally do not believe that students are getting much out of their college learning because of the subjects that are taught. More than half of the things learned in colleges aren't even going to benefit or affect students in the long run. I also believe that most of student's college experiences aren't that great because not everyone could afford to go to an ivy league school. I think that once a student gets into their job, they forget pretty much everything they learned in their college years because it's not going to be used in their future so why should one retain information learned from college years in their mind? People could actually just get a job, get taught the job, and succeed at what they do in most careers out there. What one can say is: College is somewhat a waste of money; all one gets out of it is social experiences. How much a student learns merely depends on their where they came from, (family), and whether they are actually willing to want to learn or just want to get out of college and get a career as soon as possible. I do believe though that this isn't right and I think some professors should go through more education on how to teach students. A little motivation can get anyone further in life.
ReplyDeleteI know that there are a lot—and I mean A LOT—of guys who do indeed seem to act years younger then the should (though I wouldn't complain about the Star Wars thing). But I also know many guys who are responsible, who put academics first and fun second. I'm lucky, and quite pleased to say that most of my guy friends, and even my boyfriend seem to have their lives together to a point. We aren't out of college, hell some of us aren't even 19 yet, so I can't really see if any of them are going to hold on to their college days longer than necessary. But from what I see, I doubt that will happen.
ReplyDeleteThough sadly, I know for a fact that there are many guys around campus at this moment who are going to still act like they're 21 even after they turn 28. I feel like its the guys who like to party, the ones who venture out every Thursday, Friday, and Saturday to get drunk and sleep with a bunch of girls, these are the guys who seem to refuse to grow up. They seem to get used to having fun most of the time, and it's like it makes them think “if I could spend my life doing this, why take on responsibilities?”
I feel that proper decision making is a key part to “growing up”, and at this stage in life, more decisions about getting jobs, studying, and attaining a degree should be made, and not as many about going out and getting smashed. Guys who are more career focused seem to have then tendency to break out of the shell that is college and adjust well to the working world. Alternately, guys who'd rather spend their time partying, seem to leave college, and land in their parent's basements, choosing Call of Duty over a job. In the long run it's decisions that separate the men from the boys.