No, I'm not talking about cougars...not that kind of mom.
This is the "Tiger Mom" - Amy Chua, a Yale University law professor who wrote a book called The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, which calls into question American parenting practices when it comes to raising successful children.
This TIME MAGAZINE article brought the phenomenon to my attention.
Sounds interesting? Maybe.
Here's one counter to the discussion: From Slate.com, it asks if the "Tiger Mom" approach hurts the American economic model. The link is HERE.
Another counter is from a Chinese educator who takes issue with some of Chua's methods. Read that HERE. From the Orange County Register, via MSNBC.com.
Do you think Chua is off her rocker? Or does she have a point?
Lastly, this article, found on Yahoo! via the Brighton Pittsford Post.com site, talks about a Philadelphia area teacher who is suspended for calling out her students on a blog. At issue: You guessed it, their laziness. The link is HERE.
Your responses? Who's right and who is wrong? I want you to synthesize these sources into one coherent response, and do it between 300-500 words. In other words, one paragraph isn't going to cut it.
Let's give this one TWO WEEKS, until March 4 or so before I start considering this blog past due.
This one's the most in-depth yet, and you should start driving your discussions in this forum, not me.
Enjoy...
MP
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis may seem crazy but Chua is not all that crazy. Have these people not heard of tough love? While in some cases her ideals may be a little overboard and harsh, such as throwing away her child’s birthday present to her. But I would have to agree with her that all she is doing is preparing her children for the future. The real world is no walk in the park. Not everyone is going to accept and appreciate what you do in your life like mommy and daddy did for your childhood. That’s why it is okay for parents to give their children a so called tough love. It gives them a little adversity and criticism to face in their life before the consequences are actually too serious. But at the same time her practices again are a little harsh but she has the right mindset. On the other side of the spectrum American kids are way too spoiled and many can’t even distinguish between real life and virtual lives. Due to the fact that their always on the computer and or video games. This creates laziness among teenagers nationwide. Because the average American parents are too worried about getting 411-KIDS called on them for making their kids actually do something with their lives. A really good example of this can be seen in any college class. By the end of the semester, especially freshman year, you can tell which kids were pushed to succeed when they were younger and which one were allowed to do what ever they wanted and end up wasting their time playing video games. This is why there is nothing wrong with a teacher calling out her lazy students because someone has to do it. I just hate how America has become so sensitive these days that if you say something that might hurt someone’s feelings it is considered a crime. Now while China probably has taken their sensitivity to the other extreme we need to find an appropriate medium that makes kids realize the real world at a young age and at the same time knows how to feel emotions. Because I guarantee that even though the majority of Chinese students could beat me in the class room they have no real world problem skills. The only problems they face is solve this equation or play that instrument more classical and that is why America shouldn’t fear being second place behind china because all they are making their children is mindless robots or computers and not people that can face real problems in the real world.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI honestly dont think that Chua is crazy at all but she should at least give her children a break once in a while. She cannot run her children down as they were describing in the artlicle because she may think that her children will grow up strong but not really. Her children will most likely grow up not knowing the joys of life and not loving things like they should. Some children may even grow up to resent their parents because of the way they have been treated. I can tell you from personal experience. She is teaching her children to be extremely book smart and talented with the violin. But put us in the real world at the same time with the same materials and I'll probably be the one to survive. They dont let their children go out and experince things. I just think that Chinese children are gonna end up worse for it all.
ReplyDeleteI feel what Chua was saying to her kids was wrong. Growing up I had a hard time with my mother and her ways of trying to make me perfect. She explained it to my aunt one day and it made me sick. She calls me fat every morning before I go to school so all day I will watch what I eat because all I can hear is her fat comment in my head. She always told me I wasn't allowed to have a job because it would take time away from my sports and my studying, but the real reason was she didn't want me to have any money so I would go to the college she wanted me to go to. I mean its pretty hard to go to college without money. She was always looking for ways to control my actions which is what I feel this mother and other tiger moms' are doing. I feel if you push too hard you will end up pushing them away. Yes, everyone wants the children to be successful but I think the child needs to decided what they want from life and learn lessons as they go. Maybe let them learn from their own mistakes and they will most likely remember that for the rest of their life and never do it again. Now referring to the article about the gym teacher calling them lazy. I feel this was okay because it was not directed to a certain student. By directing to a school full of student or even America in general I feel shows no harm and is sometimes true. Yes America is known for being lazy but that doesn't mean everyone is. A group of people some how labeled us that way. I think they want to be lazy then let them and see what happens. Maybe if we start showing the world how laziness can hurt you in life they might get scared into becoming more active in order to stray away from what that person has become. Over all my main point is parents have no reason to be over protective and control their children lives and America is lazy but not everyone, so try focusing on the positive aspects of it.
ReplyDeleteAmy Chua is not so bad after all. It seems that she is getting a lot of attention with the release of her book combined with the release of test scores from the Program for International Student Assessment. In these test scores, America is located in a not so impressive 17th overall, while students from Shanghai, China (just Shanghai) are numero uno. Not so good for the land of opportunity. What can this be attributed to?
ReplyDeleteWith beliefs such as hard work, persistence and no patience for excuses, it is hard for me to not agree with Chua. Well, most of her. While discussing Western parenting, Chua notes many Asian parents are secretly shocked and horrified by the amount of time Western parents allow their children to waste on Facebook and games (This could explain the increase in the amount of Pre-adults or the fall of the American male, so named in Kay Hymowitz’s article). Instead of wasting time, Chua believes that practice, memorization and true dedication to a task is essential in succeeding in the world. In their response, Western parents argue that providing less rigid guidelines, and more freedom to their children, they will develop a much more creative mind (Which I beg to differ. Not everyone can be a creative or technical genius; we need workers who can perform repetitious tasks as well). Chua also mentions that American parents love to slather praise upon their children, constantly approving and praising their children for normal, everyday tasks that should not warrant praise. Agreed. The first time you learn, or do something well, you should be praised or rewarded, but not every time you repeat it (could you imagine being praised every time you washed your hands after the restroom). While I find myself in major agreement with Chua, I also agree with the American parent who looks down on verbally assaulting your child. A parent should provide a loving, yet disciplined environment for the child to grow.
What is needed is a puree of both worlds. Change the American education system to more appropriately fit the current world economy (we no longer need our children to work the farm in the summer). Encourage hard work and dedication and creativity in your child while expressing the love that they deserve. This means making decisions for your child, or at least limiting their decisions until they can adequately think for themselves.
As for the teacher who was suspended for venting about her students, I say congratulations. Could have probably skipped on the language, but congratulations on saying what others will not. The truth. American parents today are aware of a growing problem; the ever increasing insubordinate and apathetic youth. However, what American parents are not aware of is that they are the reason. They refuse to believe that their child is part of the problem. By giving their children everything they want (the life they never had), and not setting goals and protecting them from any outside source of criticism, their children become apathetic and see no reason to do anything other than self-serving purposes. If a student is lazy, tell him. Who knows, you might be able to light a fire and inspire someone who couldn’t get it at home.
I don't necessarily agree to Chua views but I do understand why she will go by them. That's how she was raised and she most likely feel as if her parent did it for the best of her and she will like to do the same for her children. I'm not a fan of strict parents or controlling abusive parents who see their child doing no wrong or making the child feel like everything they do is wrong. That is just pure nonsense. Kids do need direction and discipline but going overboard can really ruin a relationship between the parent and the child. This may not happen in all cases but I have seen certain situation with my peers that once they escape from under their parents arm they began to act wild. Parenting will all be different, no one knows the cheat code that will make their child seem like the perfect child ever. As a parent you just want the best for your child. Viewing her parenting I do understand that she is just trying to prepare her daughters for this cold world but she also has to a understand people make mistakes and if her daughters don't know how to handle their own mistakes once they enter this cold world they will be lost. I also believe if you live by someones elses views and not your own you are not living life for yourself you are living life through someone else. So are you truly happy will probably be a question that pop up a lot out of life. It comes a point when you just have to put trust in your child. Know that the first time they try to ride without training wheels they will fall, or those moments when you tell them don't do something and they do it will happen. You learn from experience and if the experience makes you unhappy at the end you try to stay away from it. At the end of the day I just think the valuable lesson anyone can learn from is their own mistakes. We were not form or made to be perfect.
ReplyDeleteChua is indeed off her rocker. However because she believes this is the right thing to do for her child, that shows she does have good intentions. Children are spending too much time on the computer or watching TV when they could be studying or exercising. It is good that she is putting so much effort into her children being successful but she is going about it all wrong.
ReplyDeleteWhen I read that her daughter made her birthday card and she rejected it and said she deserved better, I couldn’t believe a mother could say something so hurtful to their child. When a person does something for someone else or something like receiving an A on a test, they deserve praise.
She has to understand that kids are kids. They need social interaction with others their age. To not allow play dates or sleepovers, television, computer games or even participating in school plays is just setting your child up to have difficulty socializing with others. Why would one want for their child?
I’m not saying a parent should let their children run reckless and not put the effort into their school work. Studies should always come first but if your child is doing well they deserve to be rewarded. My mother and father always applauded me for doing well. Sometimes when we know that we will be applauded for doing something we are suppose to it motivates us to continue to do so. When I was little if my mother applauded me for surprising her with a clean kitchen I was more likely to continue to clean the kitchen without being asked. That is not always the case but for children especially it is nice to hear a job well done when one deserves it.
The middle school English teacher was completely wrong for doing what she did. You can’t expect middle school students to be as mature as a thirty year old. Instead of posting a blog she could have simply had a conference with the students that were acting up. Posting a blog complaining about the students and not doing anything about it was incredibly unprofessional.
Interesting article. I find it insightful and a bit ironic that so many classmates are agreeing with Chua approach to child reering. Perhaps even more ironic is that i too agree with the 'cougar approach' atleast to a degree. From reading the above post I gather that most would agree that we Americans today have it far to easy. There are simply to many distraction and entertainments that we find ourselves wasting excessive amount of times and procrastinating on what is immediately important.
ReplyDeleteNow, we could start pointing the finger at whose to blame, is it the teachers, is it the student is it the parents, or is it the government or the students or the media or hollywood. Who is making Americans so darn lazy and stupid.
The truth is its everyone. We are all to blame. The teachers, the students, the parents, the media, everyone. We are all getting lazy, slacking off, looking for the easiest and cheapest solution to the problem.
What i think the whole concept of the cougar parent is trying to get at is that its time that all parties take some responsibility and start performing better. I'm not saying the excessive beratment of your children is a good thing and I do think Mrs. Chua is making a fundemental flaw by not first having her children decide on what activities they want to pursue and also rewarding the children when they have performed well (thats just some basic Padlov right there) What Mrs. Chua is doing right is taking personal responsibility for the development of her children. While it may seem like she is keeping her kids on a tight leash, discipline and commitment are essential virtues to survival and yet today seem all to foreign.
I think there are things to be learned for the cougar approach, things to be ignored, but overall the intentions are good.
Elan
I feel that Chua has some good reasoning behind her madness, but I do think it has gone a little overboard. She is raising her child with the same parenting skills that she was raised with. You can find this type of parenting all across the East. It is a strict, well organized life with little personal choice making. Chua needs to understand that the circle of harsh punishment and abuse will continue on through generations if it does not stop now. Children take everything that their parent is saying to heart. Her daughter will grow up thinking that she is always inferior and everything she does is not good enough. This is no way for a young girl to come up. What she needs is guidance and motivation to do better if she is slacking. Constructive criticism is good in moderations. Chua needs to see a counselor about how she can be caring and learn to raise her daughter with respect. I do agree with the article from the Slate website. The idea of each country or region focusing on what they do best is a great idea for reliable material. Also, in the East they are taught to make everything part perfect and flawless, while in America we focus on mass producing parts with a few bad parts mixed in. In America we promote free thinking and the use of our imagination as a basis for learning while in the East they are memorizers that are taught what to think. Most think that this is what produces our great scientists and mathematicians. When it comes down to the teacher and calling out her students for being lazy workers, I have no problem with it. Maybe if more teachers spoke up and showed the parents what was actually going on in school, the parents would step up and push their children. After all, I believe that the parents are the biggest factor as to how motivated the kids are about working. Monkey see, monkey do.
ReplyDeleteiuui
ReplyDeleteAfter reading these articles and a few others I found along the way my opinion on tiger mom is not really on how she raises her children but on her reasons she is doing it. I think her "tiger mom" approach is what she was raised on and she found it to be successful. Amy herself is a professor at Yale University and her daughter who has made her own blog supporting her mother is currently deciding between her mother’s place of work Yale or Harvard university. This strict approach does not really fit into American culture and to us who have been raised in the relaxed and free childhood of the American dream Amy’s approach seems outrageous. But this is America and she gets to choose how she wants to raise her children especially because she is a loving mother and her children appreciate her strictness. It goes along the same lines as “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure” and “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. To us she seems evil and harsh but for them that is the norm and if it was done any other way many people from their culture would probably frown upon them and say that she was doing her children a disservice. As far as the “tiger mom” approach being bad for America’s economy I think not. One fact of the matter is in china only the children who are capable of going to school are allowed to go. They may have better test scores but ours are factored in with all the children including the special needs ones and children of poverty this is not the case in china. The teacher who calls hers students lazy and got suspended for it from my experience probably was right about her students. Because of our laid back style of raising our children there are a lot of delinquent lazy children but just as the one article kind of pointed out that is why we have some people who are above the norm and not just in math. I am happy for tiger mom and her success and she probably likes these 15 minutes of fame.
ReplyDeleteThe first comment was a test to see if it would post! As for this blog, I understand both of the mothers situations. Ms. Chen and Ms. Chau, but I lean more towards Ms.Chen's methods because she seems more leaniant with her children even though she stresses education on them. Playing sports and being involved in extracurricular activities is also important for children in school. Ms. Chau seems a little to obsessive to me. I feel like she's the type of tiger mom that wants her kids to live her dreams. That's what type of parent she seems to come across to me. The english teacher on the other hand, im not too sure what to say about her. I understand it can get rough for teachers and professors out there because im sure it gets frustrating teaching kids kids all day everyday, and some kids and teens have no respect for adults. That's why I can understand where she's coming from, but her wrong doing was that she blogged about it. She's the adult in the situation so she should of kept her comments to herself. If she is really having that much trouble with her students, then she should go to the board of education and say something or find a different job because she's just going to stay miserable and hate kids!
ReplyDeleteI would have to say that the majority of what Chua said in her book was an attempt at fame which obviously worked, she is all over the place, and I even saw her on the Colbert Report. She has also said that a lot of the things in her book were exaggerated which I guess leads me to the real issue at hand. If everything in her book is true, I would have to say her methods are way over the top. I totally understand pushing children to work hard and teaching them good work and study habits but what Chua is doing is ridiculous. I would have to say that her children are not going to be very well rounded and may not have very good socialization skills or leadership skills, they are going to be drones that are great at bookwork but really have no social skills which can be extremely important in a work environment. I’m sure everyone has worked for someone who is very good at their job but has no ability to interact with coworkers; this makes communication extremely difficult and makes everyone else’s job more difficult. When you look at Chua’s methods of not allowing her children to participate in sports or extracurricular activities they just seem ridiculous. Sports and activities like theatre teach kids to better manage their time, they also teach important skills such as leadership and communication. When I read about forcing her daughter to learn the piano, I was honestly flabbergasted, what is the point in forcing her to learn that song if she doesn’t want to, music should be about feeling and is absolutely pointless if your forced to play something you don’t enjoy.
ReplyDeleteI also have a strong feeling that kids should have the chance to make their own decisions and also have the ability to experience failure. Obviously I’m not saying it should be rewarded but I am saying that if a child experiences failure they get to see how it feels and are forced to see the repercussions of their failure. If these “Tiger Cubs” are not allowed to fail at a young age they wont know what to do when they fail in real life because everyone at some point will fail.
I do understand that our education system is far from perfect but it really can’t be all bad. We really do have some of the brightest minds in the world and our system allows for a lot of free thinking and allows for a great deal of diversity and not just a group of automatons. I do feel that everyone should have a say in how our education system works and maybe the blog that the Philadelphia teacher posted wasn’t the best way to express her feelings but she should have every right to question the systems and the kids in it. I think that a more formal complaint would have been a lot more professional.
To raise your children being a tiger mom is no way to get your child’s respect. In order for them to understand why you are doing something they need to know you love them and they won’t know that just by you being a hard ass. My father was an asshole. I never understood his methods and always rebelled against him because he did not show me any love or respect. I eventually hated him and hated hearing the word dad. It wasn’t until I lived with my mother who showed me love, just as Chen did, that I realized what my father was trying to do. Chen is right about your children following through what your children love and are good at. I was very well as health and sciences, but horrible at math. My mom accepted that and it made me try a little harder. I always tried, but never cared. Now I did because I had the respect. If parents don’t care enough, that is when their kids become lazy. When Parents baby or shelter their kids, they don’t do anything and have no respect for themselves or their work. This is mainly in America, but it should not become a stereotype. Not all parents don’t care or care way too much. Some kids just haven’t hit that point in their lives where they understand their parents. I didn’t until I had something different.
ReplyDeleteChua is off her rocker, to me, but i believe that is because I am American. Even though I think she is pretty harsh as a parent I still respect her for several reasons: as Chua claims many times throughout her book and interviews her parenting methods are traditional to Chinese culture, her kids may have seemed deprived of love and acceptance to outsiders but they know that to earn respect, love, and acceptance from their parents they must listen to, obey, and continue to impress their parents by being the best at what they do due to the hard work and practice put in and the family stuck to those traditions for the most part.
ReplyDeleteI can relate to the lifestyle somewhat growing up in a Chinese culture in the way that my parents did not accept anything lower than an A in school (up until about middle school), and my parents also had me completing chores and taking on high responsibilities at a young age. They always put school first, then work around the house such as: cleaning, vacuuming, and dusting the house, washing dishes, taking out trash, taking care of the dogs, and with my father being in the landscaping business so long he always had me outside performing various landscaping and construction tasks around the house. It was only then after I took care of these responsibilities that I could go out with friends and play. Once I got to the age of fourteen or fifteen my parents started pushing for me to get a job and earn my own money to learn the value of a dollar, while still taking care of my responsibilities in school, sports, and around the house. And I did, successfully.
My parents were strict, to a certain age, I would receive the occasional belt or slap across the ass or a light smack on the mouth due to my smart ass mouth or back talking my elders. They were the type of tough love parents but they still showed me love and praise for my accomplishments and being responsible and it made me realize at a very young age that they’re only helping guide me for what is ahead in life, and that they have been through this all before so I must respect, listen to, and obey my parents. This made me want to accomplish chores and receive good grades because it is what I had to do as a part of life and learning as I grow. I feel that once I showed the respect I had for my parents in every aspect of what they do for me and my parents seen it they allowed me to have my freedom knowing that I was capable of surviving independently out in the world.
I was allowed more freedom than Chua’s children and I feel that that is the best way to be raised because it instills discipline and respect within one at a young age while still developing a social life out in the world.
I do agree with the point that Westerners, along with other cultures, are falling far behind China academically. I feel that we could fortify our efforts to better education in America by possibly incorporating methods used over in countries such as China. Stronger encouragement from parents within families to push todays kids harder and to do better in school would be a great start.
[1:57:05 AM] Talla Mathkour: Chua absolutely has a point with how Americans spend countless hours wasting time on video games and Facebook. She’s also defensible in how she raises her children so that they are ready to take on the real world, but not letting them have a social life may contradict what she is aiming for. She wants her children to be successful, but how are they going land international negotiations when they are awkward speaking to other people and can’t crack a joke to warm up the environment they are about to present their next great idea to. It goes both ways for her because she has the right intentions in raising her children and wanting the best for them and their future, but she’s doing it in such a manner that destroys their childhood and will ruin them publically in years to come. They only have one childhood and their memories will consist of countless hours of playing the piano, practicing the violin, and doing gruesome work while their peers are enjoying sunny days at the park. They may be blindly following her orders right now, but that could only be because at their age it’s black and white thinking where things are either right or wrong. For the time being it’s right to do what your mother tells you to do, and absolutely wrong to go against her words or talk back to her—especially since they fear her. Although, children shouldn’t fear their parents, they should respect them. As for the gym teacher, she should not have used such harsh wording directed at her students, but should have meant it in a general term with appropriate word usage. She should have kept in mind that this is her career and she cannot speak about the very children she is influencing in that way. It is understandable that her students may be lazy, but it was completely unprofessional for her to blog about it publicly. She is still a teacher and has set an example for those she is trying to teach.
ReplyDeleteI have very mixed feelings about the “Tiger Mom” approach to raising children. On one hand, the child in question would probably have a very high sense of respect, a very developed sense of responsibility, and would probably be successful in the world as an adult if they carried out the tough teachings of their parents through their lives. On the other, the child may lose the sense of self-respect that they should have. It cannot be healthy to constantly feel inadequate, to never feel like you're living up to the light you're parents have placed on you.
ReplyDeleteIn some ways, tiger parenting is a good thing. Such as making sure your child studies before he or she watches television or goes over to play at a friends house. But making a child sit for hours, practicing the piano, with no bathroom, meal, or water breaks, to me is a form of abuse. Setting standards for your child is necessary. But it is possible to set standards to high.
In one of the articles where it talked about Chua rejecting a birthday card made by her child because it wasn't “good enough”, I was somewhat shocked. I actually had trouble reading through the entire page because I was getting frustrated. I don't think it's right for a parent to cut a child down in such a way. I understand that Chua came from a different family background, and she is raising her child as her parents raised her, but what is considered going too far? There has to be boundaries. I was disturbed by the fact that there never seemed to be an instance where Chua congratulated her child, or made any effort to show any type of love or caring at all. I feel that letting a child know that they are cared for and loved is far more important than having them learn a piano piece any day. I don't understand how a parent can say something their child does isn't good enough, to see the disappointment on their face when they find out that their mom or dad didn't approve of what they did. I personally don't understand, but as I've said, I grew up in a different background.